ironic

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/11/05/pakistan/index.html

Anyone else think it's mildly ironical that Bush is telling someone else that they're undermining democracy?

Anyone else think Pakistan should have been the second country to invade after Afghanistan (if there has to be invasions, they were 3 actually, Saudi being 1, Afghanistan 2)? What they have nukes and F-16s instead of decaying chemical weapons and no air force? There were 3 countries with relatively moderate Islamic roots and governments prior to 9/11. Turkey is acting more belligerent over the Armenian massacres resolution (which bowed to the pressure and didn't pass) and just elected a harder Islamist government (albeit with the curious free-market reform attitude that we like). Pakistan has gone steadily into military hardliners in order to satisfy our anti-terrorist demands and continue repressing extremist elements that have grown up in the wake of Afghanistan. And then there's Indonesia. Which actually seems to be doing relatively fine, mostly because Islam is a bit wacky and less invasive there (more like Christianity worked in Europe post-Reformation, apart from the wars) in comparison to the Arabic countries. 2 out of 3 are failing because of our policies forcing more active and repressive policies in response or cooperation.

It is true that terrorist elements and religious extremism need to be combated, even actively suppressed and destroyed by force if need be. But Islamic countries had some positive ability to repress the more dangerous jihadist root sub-culture of terrorists which we tossed aside by ignoring the culture gap. We have seemed to assume that other countries live by the 'there is an American inside of everyone' routine which isn't quite accurate. Islam, for better or worse, maintains a strong and visible presence in Middle Eastern life. There are definite problems with its track record as regards many things (women in particular). Some of these things are reforming, slowly. In some places, much more rapidly. Moderate interpretations of Islam will never quite match the idealized separation of church and state that Americans are grappling with (and often failing ourselves). But it can maintain levels of personal freedom and it certainly has no qualms about raising standards of living through economics and trade. In the long term, it's far easier to recruit suicide bombers and other free radicals from a society in militant repression and economic depression than in a land rife with more positive opportunity. We have mistakenly believed that freedom is more important than opportunity or hope. In this error, we're fostering a new generation of extremism in places we would have never even seen or thought of. Pakistan at least has some hope of democracy (Bhutto for example) and prosperity instead of endless terror. But it's not reasonable for us to be telling others that they're endangering democracy when we don't seem to be able to defend it here.