i see a future of unmarried and childless wastelanders
I'm not sure what part of America this guy comes from, because the impetus on having kids or getting married around here is still pretty strong on average (unreasonably so in my opinion). Perhaps among highly educated people (or weirdos like me) the delay is natural, but I don't even see how it's unhealthy to a society. Even if you delay having children, you can still have kids at a naturally occurring clip (the necessary for population stability say ~2). I also don't see how this demographic trend was unusual relative to the history of affluent societies, and thus how it would be construed as "wrong". I'd say "so what?" to this problem.
I might agree personally to the assumptions being made, but I recognize that my situation is distinct from the average. My standards for even friendship are impossibly high. That doesn't say much for my standards in women (suffices to say, I am not or no longer easily impressed). And I've never had much interest even in idle contemplation of having children (actually I've somehow managed not even to meet with any of my friends' kids thus far, to be fair they mostly moved far enough away that a meeting on these pretenses would feel absurd). But I don't see this as a commonly held trait among others.
Most of my friends and peers, while having delayed somewhat for these things, are married, and several have a child out of that pairing "already" (with the loose assumption that within the first couple years of marriage is quite soon enough to start reproducing). While I'm not generally in a position to know, I would figure they're rather contented with these decisions having waited. It would seem to me that with all the evidence of the benefits on individuals for waiting to make such choices as having children or settling on a mate, it doesn't look like there's a greater danger posed to society that we must go around exhorting people to make these choices sooner. In fact, the cost of doing is often born not by the people making the choices but by the society itself around them. I'm much happier not having to pay very much to support someone else's children. I might be okay with paying a little bit to educate them properly, but not to have to take care of basic necessities. If you cannot afford a child, as is common if you have kids earlier, it's difficult to say that we've made an excellent life decision. Or if this happens on a frequent basis, it's hard to see how this would make an excellent society.
People can worry all they want about some sort of a barren individualistic society resulting from people delaying these choices. I'm not seeing enough of a lone wolf tendency in others to take their concerns seriously.
16 July 2009
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I'd say that guy's just tarded. I think if any one were to actually stop and think about it, they'd come to a conclusion similar to the one you've come to. Not to say everyone should wait or not have kids at all; some people are quite happy sacrificing certain things to have children early on. But I think the more civilized a society becomes, the later its citizenry will replicate.
I think one point I didn't make was that given that a fair majority of people still must not "wait" to have children or to get married in our society, it doesn't make sense to claim that this supposed individualistic ideal is either a source of a problem or a problem in and of itself. I suspect he just hasn't been hanging around enough "real" Americans to be aware that most of them are plenty silly enough to have kids whenever they damn well please rather than making some sort of educated economics decision on the "loss of freedom" that a child poses them.
I might imagine that the responsibilities involved in children do give me some pause, but I also acknowledge that there are occasionally some responsibilities necessary to prevent me from having that responsibility in the first place. What exactly is wrong with having sex for (mutual) pleasure that individuals could not pursue this "responsibily" in the intervals before some desire to reproduce takes place?
I'm at a loss. I'm getting too old to argue with these people or to try to figure them out. I've just resorted/reverted to mocking them or just biting my lip, the latter being the more frequent choice.
I'm pretty sure Russell advised pity as the appropriate response to encountering deliberate stupidity. It's hard not to mock.
Oh yes, the restraint from mocking is positively painful.
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